Discussion of the Day
Future tradies
25-Jul-21
Australia has let people down who want to learn a trade or in agriculture.
Employers found it expensive and hard to accommodate an apprentice who needs to attend college in the bosses time for long periods.
In some trades there may only be one trades person who has employed an apprentice and without the apprentice the trades person cannot do his work as he has no assistance.
Some of the training should be done in the time of the apprentice not the employer.
Proper training facilities need to be setup to allow an apprentice to learn his skills so that when he starts on the job he is of some use.
The loss of government training facilities in many fields has caused a shortage of trades people.
Comments
  • Having read the comments from everyone here I think we ALL should get together and form our own Federal and State political parties and run for government office at the next Federal and State elections..... We CAN fix the country we live in
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    • Sadly, the government of today, and for the last decade or so has lost the reality of the world as they have NO IDEA of what life is like for the average business owner, employee, pensioner, or unemployed because the government each have millions of dollars to survive on as they live in their mansions; therefore they have NEVER experienced the suffering of these people ..... This is why, sadly, the ONLY way things will change for the better is IF the country and States were governed by "Real" people instead of by RICH people.
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      • It was great when local councils indentured the apprentices and had them work in many different places in employment in between doing the tech schooling. This ensured the apprentices could finish their time while getting a greater range of experience for the future and smaller employers could also benefit.
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        • If we don't have trades people to fix our blocked drains, replace broken toilets, fixing our gas and electricity supplies. If we don't have them we need to be going back to get wood stoves to heat water and to cook. Who want's this, give more training places to people willing to help us and this would then more problems with climate change as we burn all the trees for heating and cooking.
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          • The demise of the old Technical High Schools was the start of the rot. University degrees are no help when you have a blocked drain or no electricity. Bring back realistic schooling and the chance for trades to be learnt by those who wish to.
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            • Tradies are very important for all of us & training /apprenticeships should be encouraged
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              • I like Tradies.
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                • Me too lol
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                • You two girls concentrate on the discussion!
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              • The trick is perhaps for the employer to make proper use of the apprentice...train them hard and then work them harder...make them great tradesman while making a lot of money out their outstanding abilities...But that takes a great boss and great apprentice...My son and his boss both got very lucky!
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                • Maybe set a year aside to do the academics of it, but I understand having done an apprenticeship in the 1960's. It was like that then, one day a week.
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                  • Its a shame. We need to help young people get trades and jobs.
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                    • The rot set in back in the 1970s when our politicians decided that we should cosy-up to other Low-to-Slave Labour countries and hand over almost our entire Manufacturing Sector to them. It began with Clothing, Footwear and Textiles - so bang went Apprenticeships in those three very important economic areas for Australia. This was all followed by practically any Manufacturing you can think of be it Electrical, Plumbing, Engineering, Carpentry - everything - and it was all done with the 100% Support of the Australian Labor Party. The Unions - those "Champions of the Working Masses" remained silent - but then they would wouldn't they? These Socialists were happy to hand over everything to the Worker's Champion of the World: the Communist Dictatorship in China. Liberal and National Party politicians also supported this Treasonous Betrayal of the Australian people by supporting this nonsense of "Globalisation". Now that China has turned on Australia, imposing 800% Tariffs on Australian Wine and other products including Barley, banned the import of Beef, a few politicians have come to the realisation that Australia has to re-start Manufacturing here. Unfortunately the current Federal Government, Fully Supported by the ALP, refuse to retaliate preferring, they tell us to use Diplomacy - well a fat lot of good that is if the Chinese Dictatorship won't allow their puppets to speak to Australia. The Australian Public should impose their own sanctions on all Chinese products and demand that companies Making such products as Fridges, TVs, Stoves, Microwaves, Cars, Clothing, Footwear, Furniture etc. stop making them in China and elsewhere and start making them here again. Then they can open up Apprenticeships and train our own people.
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                      • I had to walk away from a Butcher's apprenticeship in the early 2000's due to sexism and inequality in the workplace (not to mention the sexual harrassment). I had learn the skills since i was a young child and used to help with the killing, dressing and butchery of our own meat- it was just the paperwork and fine tuning of my skills that i had to do via an apprenticeship, but wasn't able to complete. My son is currently doing a Cert 2 and Cert 3 at school, being completed as HSC/VET subjects. He will leave school with an understanding of both jobs and a foot in the door to get full time work. Many schools offer TAFE courses as well as apprenticeships and traineeships to those students who desire this future.
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                        • Modern ideas have ruined a lot of things in this world ,Bring back the old ways ,Teach people on the job stop the greed
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                          • we've let ourselves down by buying goods that have been made overseas,,, manufacturers like Kelvinator, Hush Puppies, Holdens etc needed to train apprentices in a wide variety of trades to facilitate their ongoing operations, In the early 70's Holden's Woodville plant supported an apprentice program that turned out more than 100 qualified tradespersons a year
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                            • My son is a electrician and a very good one it was hard work and he got there in the end
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                              • I disagree totally,the problem with the trades is in the 90s and early 2000s,greed took over and companies found it cheaper to import tradies than to bring on apprentices,executives in these companies got fat bonuses for making the company more money while shooting themselves in the foot for later years,in a way covid has been good as it has stopped employers bringing in these visa 457 tradies and are now taking on apprentices
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                                • My grandson was very lucky, he had a passion for carpentry and got the opportunity to take up an apprenticeship with a lovely young man, who had his own building/construction business. Now my grandson works for him full time, and has completed his apprenticeship with him.
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                                  • Whatever happened to earn while you learn? And you're right, there's a lack of places you can train and some employers only want to give a chance to people they know.
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                                    • No idea what so ever.
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                                      • The whole idea of an apprenticeship is to do the formal training, alongside on the job training. Apprentices are paid a token sum of money until they are qualified. They attend TAFE either one day a week, one week a month, or for an extended block, depending on employer and employee requirements. Employers get the benefit of cheap labour and being able to train a person to fulfil the requirements of that particular workplace. Tradies are an essential service. Unfortunately young people have been pushed into higher education, whether they are academically inclined or not, instead of considering apprenticeships as an acceptable career path. Stupid really. If your sewerage is blocked and you can’t get a dunny diver, or your got power issues and can’t get a sparky, you’re really in trouble.
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                                        • It is hard to get apprentices at $15 per hour - they complain that their mates who are working as labourers get $25. I keep explaining "That's what they will be on for the rest of their lives. You just need to hang in there until you have finished your apprenticeship." So many don't listen.
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                                          • Bring back Tech school and manufacturing back. Australia needs to become more self sufficient and not so reliant on other countries, especially China.
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                                            • Many years ago apprentices learned on the job but these days everything is done in a classroom and they come onto the job knowing everything except how to do the job. The first thing we had to do is to actually teach them how to work, how to accept the responsibility of work and how to do it safely. Only then did they start learning to do the job…lol a challenge in itself
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                                              • neat
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                                                • doesnt australia import them??
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                                                  • be lost without em'.
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                                                    • I agree. I remember a hot water system being installed by two trainees. After completion the employer checked it and said it was fine that they did it correctly. A short time passed and we had an unexpected inspector to check the work they had done. He said this is done incorrectly that the hot water unit should not be sitting on the gas pipes. This can rupture and cause an explosion. They were sent back to fix it under the inspectors eyes. The boss said to the young men why they done it this way when he approved it. He tried to cover his own mistake. Lucky for the inspector or I may not be here to tell the story.
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                                                      • That’s rubbish..! Your contradicting yourself… Apprentices should still learn on the bosses timeTheir has always been apprentices in all types of jobs and that’s why we are where we are today with lots of qualified people in the world and it’s always been working alright for lots of bosses over the past centuries lol
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                                                        • We all need tradies to do the proper jobs that cant be done by ourselves. All 3 of my children and my husband are tradies. They learnt in trade school 1 day a week and the rest on the job for proper experience. There are some jobs that cant be done by robots, we need to teach people to be hands on and learn trades in training facilities, so jobs are done right and not botched
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                                                          • Not something I know about or comment about
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                                                            • I don't know enough to comment
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                                                              • We need to bring back the Technical Colleges we used to have that taught young people who preferred to work with their hands parallel with High Schools where young people's capabilities belong in the academic arena. Australia should be concentrating on advancing the schooling needs of our own young people and not investing in the education of overseas students who either go back and take their knowledge to their own country or stay and soak up the employment here leaving our qualified brilliant young people to what? Go on the pathetic dole and be labelled "dole bludgers". We need to think smart, act smart and we will have our own smarter home grown workforce. Keep it simple and keep it here.
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                                                                • YES I THINK THEY NEED MORE GOVERMENT HELP AND MORE TAFES TO HOPE THEM TRAIN THEN GO INTO THE JOB
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                                                                  • Needs more commitment from all sides. Government, Employer and the apprentice.
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                                                                    • But this is what the Federal Government wants Employment Just in Time with no expenses. In the Bad Old Days the employer had to train the apprentice pay for some of their tools at least and all of their Tech Time. Then we got the Accountants involved who screamed Too Expensive at everything but their own pay and the idea started of only employing Trained Professionals when they where needed. Of course those who had the training and knew what they where doing looked at what was offered to them as said Stuff That for a Joke I'm not an idiot and walked away. The Accountants continued their Race to the Bottom after getting the Politicians on Board with massive Backhanders in the form of Cash in Brown Paper Bags and lies like It will save money and be cheaper. When they had their chance no one took up the offer of part time work when the employer wanted it and the companies who where trying the scheme to make masses of money without any up front costs went broke because no one wanted to work for them. The Accountants licking their now near fatal wounds went back to the drawing board and concluded that Just Maybe those Trained People who refused to be Taken Advantage of where unhelpful and greedy because they wanted a regular income and to know what they would get each week decided to try out on untrained people to screw out of everything that they could and they found willing people to be taken advantage of and they called this new Business The Gig Economy.
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                                                                      • I'm very sorry your country let you down
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                                                                        • I used to be a part of the plumbing outfit, that we had 3 apprentices, that were with us learning the trade. From what i saw, one went on to establish himself as a good plumber. one did not complete his term as an apprentice, and the other was not in the plumbing mind sort of person. the future for trades is good, only if they are committed to it. help is always there, knowledge, tools and financially
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                                                                          • I never thought about future trades and if they would be our future trades.
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                                                                            • Never really thought about it - all my jobs were civil service (white collar - office jobs),
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                                                                              • There need to be adequate training facilities for tradies
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                                                                                • We are going to be in a mess further down the track when we don't have tradies to help. Apprenticeships should be encouraged and kids need to start on a higher pay. My grandson is an apprentice mechanic and the money he gets an hour is peanuts. How can you live & save on $13.00 odd per hour. Just crazy. Might have been ok years back when things were so much cheaper but not now!
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                                                                                  • In Australia most TAFEs are associated with Universities. The powers that be took and used the money from tafes and put it into attracting HE international students and their needs. How do ya feel now!...oh that's right... still bitching that you need more money for Higher Education students. With online learning and workplace training visits (prior to covid) the apprentice spent little time away from the job. I used to write national certificate courses for all industries. Like we used to say..I would rather hire the services of a 100% competent pass tafe tradie than a 50% pass HE uni graduate. End of Bitch LOL
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                                                                                    • Shortages happen nearly every generation and then the government can bring in people from overseas. I agree, the first year or two should be done in a school environment where they learn to be useful not just the go getter for a year or two. They also should get a reasonable wage as in years past apprentices were paid very low wages which made many turn away.
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